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Spankyjimbob Rookie 20 posts since
Jun 20, 2011

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Jan 31, 2012 8:35 AM

Post SP3 HII not working for XP

HI All,

 

If you have a mixed environment of Windows XP and Windows 7, DO NOT, I Repeat DO NOT Upgrade to SP3.

 

It will break many of your XP deployments, because the new Driver Management is automated and relies on the integrity of the *inf files within your driver repository, you cannot guarantee that the drivers you had manually assigned and tested for in SP2 will be chosen by the new HII Client process.

 

In SP2 after many months of tesing and re-jigging of LANDesks way of doing things, I finally had a resonably stable OS deployment platform. Then along came SP3 and decided to throw a mighty spanner in the works.

 

I now cannot deploy any XP images, it constantly picks windows 7 drivers that do not work on the various models we have in use. it is a graphics driver that is causing the issue and even if you have the correct XP drivers in your repository, The HIIClient will still pick the windows 7 driver as being more appropriate!!!!

 

"Remove the offending Windows 7 driver" i hear you say, but that just breaks the images for machines that need that windows 7 driver. Amend the .inf file was the other fix....so what happens the next time we upload a driver that landesk cannot tell what OS the driver is for?

 

Unfortunately i am finding out the hard way of the need for a full DEV environment to test these upgrade on. Foolishly we accepted Landesk's version of events of over 20,000 tests were done on this Service Pack. If 20,000 thousand test were done, why did it take just one afternoon for us to find a bug and our support company recreated the issue in their labs. Even the support engineers gave a workaround to bypass the new HII process ( They were that confident in it, they didn't even try to fix it)

 

Back to the drawing board on HII LANDesk. Instead of designing things in a lab, design things in conjunction with a customer so that you can actually see what happens in the real world. If it wasn't for the fact that so much money was invested on this platform, i would have shut it down by now.

 

Sooooooooo not impressed

  • Jared Barneck SupportEmployee 1,188 posts since
    Nov 19, 2007

    Has received 5 of 9 achievements.
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    1. Jan 31, 2012 9:33 AM (in response to Spankyjimbob)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    Spankyjimbob, it is OK to be a angry when we create a pain in your IT department and we have obviously caused a pain in your IT department. Thank you for your feed back.

     

    It sucks for both you and us that we can't trust the integrety of infs but we plan to have a solution to solve this from our side.

     

    LANDesk is committed to being the best HII solution.

     

    Even despite this issue, I see this as a great success in our HII solution, especially for new hardware. Think about how many new systems will you get over the next few years, and how much time an automated driver store will save you over manually creating the driver store. And when we fix this issue, and we will fix it, it will improve for you that much more.

     

    I am sorry for the struggles this has caused your IT department currently, but I am happy for this huge step forward, while understanding that another step is still needed.

     

    Is having to edit an occasional inf the only issue you have found with the HII process as of yet?

     

    Also, I am curious if Windows picks the same driver. If you have Windows automatically detect the driver by pointing to root of the driver's folder and let it search the subfolders, which driver does it choose? In testing, when this issue occurred, we choose the same driver as Windows and it would be good to know if this is the case for you as well. Of course, when we fix this, we may just have better driver results than Windows itself.

  • Brendan440 Apprentice 112 posts since
    Aug 28, 2008

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    2. Jan 31, 2012 9:55 AM (in response to Spankyjimbob)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    This is pretty amazing as I was just coming here to search for a solution to my issue and I find a post about at the very top. I am having the exact same issues, XP images are now borked as Windows7 drivers are being loaded instead of XP ones.

     

    Spanky, one question for you if you don't mind, how did you find out that it was a video driver? My systems just reboot constantly after a BSOD and the BSOD flashes so quickly I can't even see it, the only thing I have found that works is to insert a Windows XP CD and let it re-install over the top of the LANDesk image.

     

    I think the HII in SP3 is a big step forward, but this issue is a large anchor around its feet. New system may not being going out with XP now, but I have plenty of machines I need to wipe and re-image back to XP.

     

    Some kind of screen that would present what LANDesk knows about the .inf files would be great as well. A listing of everything it found and what OS they are for.

     

    Brendan

  • Brendan440 Apprentice 112 posts since
    Aug 28, 2008

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    5. Jan 31, 2012 10:08 AM (in response to Spankyjimbob)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    Spanky,

     

     

    Thanks for the quick update. Yea thats the issue with ours, is that nothing beyond inserting the OS CD and booting to it can I even get to a command prompt. Every other option just leads to constant reboots.

     

    However with installing XP over the image I am getting prompts about installing drivers again, and from that I think I may have isolated the issue. We run an HP shop here and one of the drivers is for HP Mobile Protection Sensor, which I beleive ties into the hard drive and tries to prevent the heads from moving when the laptop is in motion.

     

    I see that it has not pulled down XP drivers for that but is using the Win7 ones. Hopefully I can get into XP after its finished and go through, by hand, all the LDdrivers and see which ones are using Win7 instead of XP.

     

    Fun times ...

     

     

    Sorry for your aggrovation as well, not a good time at all.

     

    Brendan

  • Mach6 Employee 637 posts since
    May 23, 2008

    Has received 6 of 9 achievements.
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    7. Feb 1, 2012 12:14 PM (in response to Spankyjimbob)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    Hi guys,

     

    Sorry to hear the situation has been rough for you.  There are definitely some improvements that can be done (and are being done) to improve the accuracy of the HII situation.  I would definitely recommend getting a case created with support.  An officially logged case goes a long way toward indicating that a problem is affecting customers.  Many officially logged cases (by various customers) is obviously even more impactful.

     

    As to getting to the bottom of the problems there are a few things we can do.  First we want to stop the reboot loop (on the machine that's got that problem).  To do that you need to get that device back into WinPE and then follow the instructions in this document: How to modify a computer's offline registry from WinPE

     

    The example that document uses is exactly the change you want to make.  That should at least get you the bluescreen exit code and you can put that here or google on it to get more information.

     

    For the drivers that are having a problem in WinPE I would recommend modifying the SQLite database after it is created.  To do that follow the instructions in the Modify the Database section of this document: HII Driver Database

     

    I would recommend running this query against the database:

    Delete from devices where device like '*pnp%';

     

    That should increase the accuracy a lot.  I know that these are workarounds and not solutions, but I we are definitely aware of the pain you're experiencing and are working to provide a fix rather than workarounds.

     

    Let me know if you have any questions about this and what the results are when you've tried those workarounds.

     

    Thanks!

  • Rookie 27 posts since
    Aug 13, 2010

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    9. Feb 7, 2012 6:51 AM (in response to Spankyjimbob)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    I can undersatnd what you mean by it being a tad bit of a pain. I have been rebuilding my HII repostiroy for SP3 for the past month in my lab. I would highly suggest first testing any SP released in a lab before attempting to use it in production. This can reduce the amount of headaches you have and allow you to see the headaches you will have inside of a lab and not hurt the business production. This way you can prepare and address the problems like this before having to take the time to roll it back.

  • RichardA Apprentice 152 posts since
    Apr 14, 2010

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    10. Feb 7, 2012 11:23 AM (in response to Mach6)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    We've got SP3 in a lab but I've not tested any HII yet. I already know it will break our approach to EXE-based drivers so this will require a lot of work. As such, the below is based on general experience in this area, rather than direct experience with HII in SP3.

     

    When I read about the new SP3 HII approach, the first thing I considered essential would be a standalone tool you can run on any machine (from the native Windows install or WinPE) that applies the exact same logic as HII and, based on your actual driver DB, give you a summary of "hits and misses" along with a list of drivers and versions it would inject if the machine was put through HII. That way, when bringing new hardware under support, you can immediately tell what work needs to be done to get the driver repository up to scratch.

     

    Futher consideration (and based on some of the feedback in this thread) makes me think another essential tool is the ability to stage new additions to the driver DB and report on what hardware in your environment would be affected. I'm not sure if the device inventory currently contains a full enumeration of PnP devices IDs of all machines (I think not), but if it did, it would effectively be possible to run a simulation of the effect of adding a new driver to the database on all existing hardware in the environment.

     

    Even if it's not in the actual inventory, it should be possible to remotely run the above tools on a selection of target machines and report the impact that new drivers would have on those machine before releasing them from staging.

     

    I've possibly not explained myself all that well; that was a bit of a stream of consciousness, but I've pretty much got how it would work mapped out in my head and could explain it better with a little more time.

  • Joby George Apprentice 13 posts since
    Feb 12, 2010

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    11. Feb 13, 2012 3:24 AM (in response to Spankyjimbob)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    Dear All,

     

    Once Again ..

     

    If you have a mixed environment of Windows XP and Windows 7,  DO NOT Upgrade to SP3 .

     

    Use your UAT environment for LANDesk SP3 testing (Specially OSD ) before production.

     

    We had the same issue , after SP3 the HII client was injecting the windows 7 drivers for Windows XP  and finally we got BSOD. (HII is not taking the proper driver for proper OS platform.)

     

     

    Now we  have  reverted back to Sp2 and waiting for solution from LANDesk.

  • Rookie 27 posts since
    Jun 10, 2011

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    12. Feb 13, 2012 8:54 AM (in response to Joby George)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    Joby George wrote:

     

    Dear All,

     

    Once Again ..

     

    If you have a mixed environment of Windows XP and Windows 7,  DO NOT Upgrade to SP3 .

     

    Use your UAT environment for LANDesk SP3 testing (Specially OSD ) before production.

     

    We had the same issue , after SP3 the HII client was injecting the windows 7 drivers for Windows XP  and finally we got BSOD. (HII is not taking the proper driver for proper OS platform.)

     

     

    Now we  have  reverted back to Sp2 and waiting for solution from LANDesk.

     

     

    We have ran into this exact same issue. We did not have a test enviorment and upgraded to SP3 on our production enviorment and now we are having to wait until Landesk pushes out an update. We choose not to roll back to SP2 so hopefully it wont be too long before this update comes out. Until then, we are stuck unable to image xp machines unless we turn off HII and have to do alot of manual labor on each machine.

  • Mach6 Employee 637 posts since
    May 23, 2008

    Has received 6 of 9 achievements.
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Feb 13, 2012 8:51 AM (in response to bbrownderville)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    Hi All,

     

    I want to clarify a little bit of misinformation about these posts.  I have so far not seen a driver that is correctly written where LANDesk is pulling it in for the wrong OS.  Where it falls on the filesystem (ie, in a folder named Windows XP) has nothing to do with how the driver represents itself for OS compatibility.  The overriding problem seems to be overly generic device ids that are able to be matched.  There is a patch coming out shortly for those who have open cases on the issue that should help a LOT with the overly generic device ids.  Once it is proven to fix the problems at hand the patch will become more generally available.  I would highly recommend that anyone seeing problems with HII contact support and find out some of the things that can be done immediately to solve the problem and to make sure that as soon as the patch is released you have a chance to get it/test it.

     

    I know that people on this thread (and elsewhere) are experiencing pain right now with HII.  I just want to make sure that you understand that there are things our support team can do to help you with temporary solutions to the problem (read: workarounds) until a more permanent solution is released (read: patch).  Also that the patch will initially only be available for those who have a current case that the patch will likely fix.  In either situation it is in your best interests to contact support and have a case open so you can have the best chance to have your pain lessened/removed.

     

    Let me know if you have any questions about any of this.

     

    Thanks!

  • Rookie 27 posts since
    Aug 13, 2010

    Has received 1 of 9 achievements.
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    14. Feb 13, 2012 9:05 AM (in response to Mach6)
    Re: Post SP3 HII not working for XP

    I second that the part about the drivers being too generic....

     

    To remove the problem ("workaround") I have modified the drivers that were written poorly (stating support for all devices and/or multiple OSs) inside the .inf files. This problem is because of the way the manufacturer wrote the infs to state support for a range of support does not offer for that driver. If you remove the line that states it supports an OS that keeps picking it up, but it is not for the OS, rebuild the HII database with the compiler you will find that it will stop pulling the incorrect driver. It is all on the badly constructed .infs.

     

    If you attempt to install these (poorly constructed) drivers manually on the machines without HII the OS will accept them because the inf states support and you will find yourself with BSOD still.

     

    So far ATI, NVIDIA, Realtek, Intel, and Broadcom have been horriable at this for myself and the models we support in our company. I have had to clean up about 5 of the 40 models I have completed support for with SP3 in my development lab.

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